The Nativity Scene at the Capitol: Controversial?
Wednesday December 24, 2008
It seems fitting to post about this about on Christmas eve. I read last week that we got our first "Freedom From Religion Foundation" billboard in Little Rock. It looks like this. It's a stained-glass window that says "Beware of Dogma" and leads to a web address (ffrf.org). It's supposedly located on the main street bridge, but I haven't seen it myself.
Apparently, this is partly in response to the nativity scene at the Capitol grounds. The nativity is a longstanding tradition on the grounds. It is owned by a nonprofit group and erected each Christmas season on the south edge of the Capitol grounds. The Arkansas Society of Freethinkers thinks that it violates the separation of church and state. The group would like to put their own display on the grounds that would include information about the winter solstice and secular humanism, if the display is to continue.
I've read the comments about the billboard in the Arkansas blog, and I have nothing against the billboard. It's the nativity objections that I don't understand, and I am not the least bit religious.
The Capitol is decorated for Christmas (they can call it "holiday" all they want, it's decorated for Christians). If they can have Santa and reindeer and snowmen, then why not let them have their nativity? It's silly to me. Are we going to ban all decorations? In no way does a nativity on the grounds interfere with my religious freedom. I think most of our lawmakers are very upfront about their religious beliefs, and most of them are Christians. A nativity won't influence that.
I could go on and on, but what do you guys think?
Comments
I do think it violates Separation of Church and State. By saying it represents the majority of Arkansans, takes away the voice and the right of the minority. This is their state, too. It has always bothered me that the Nativity scene has been on the grounds.
I’m not against the voice of the minority. If it was a disrespectful display, I would say take it down. I don’t see how a nativity interferes with my rights to be a non-Christian or says my choice is invalid. I can still worship as I choose and visit the Capitol if I choose.
To me, it’s akin to those who get upset when you wish them a Merry Christmas. Just reply back with happy Yule or good December and be done with it, but that’s just me.
I think because other views aren’t represented, it is disrespectful. It’s saying that your beliefs aren’t as important–but that’s just my perspective. I enjoyed visiting the nativity as a kid, but as an adult I think it doesn’t belong on state property.
I cant believe that people have nothing else to do with their time than to worry about a nativity scene. That is part of what is wrong with our country. As I get older, more of this stuff is happening. I feel sorry for people who aren”t Christians, but that is their problem and their right. Merry Christmas.
Yeah, it would be nice if the state would allow them to erect their display. But, then the capitol lawn would be littered by everyone else wanting to erect theirs. I just think all the decorations at the Capitol are Christmasy so, where we do we stop? FFRF probably would like them all gone, and that would be the better thing to discuss, imho. Whether or not any display is appropriate for a state office.
Is their a menorrah on the Capitol grounds? I think all beliefs are cool. I agree with Amanda about the nativity scene. If it were disresectful or nasty or gross or vulgar or the like, I would object. I think have a Cool Yule would rock. Remember December is a month of gifts and not rifts. I take that back about feeling sorry for people who arent Christians.This is a changing world and I better get with it. I have so much to be thankful for and able to put my comments here. Thanks to Amanda for such a great she does on her Little Rock blog. I dont know her, but appreciate her keeping me informed on what is going on in the Rock. Happy holidays to everyone and I love our country.
if the Nativity were owned and erected by a state office, I’d agree that it’s a clear violation of the separation of church and state. But,it isn’t. These people intentionally overlook that it is not government propery, but public property and anyone with a permit can do any legal thing they like. It’s tantamount to saying private(whether religious, or not) organizations should not use public property to exercise their freedom of speech.
If the display offends them so much, they should get a permit and put up their own display. But protests and grousing over church and state make for a better news story.
If this is the same nativity I am thinking of, then the life-sized wooden figures were created by a master woodcarver from my childhood home back in Stone County, Arkansas. So, I suppose one it could consider it a display of the work of a master craftsman from Arkansas rather than a statement in support of a particular belief system by our state goverent. If you don’t agree with the message, then appreciate the artistic beauty of the piece & the work that went into creating it. I think it would be more of a shame to send such a masterful work of art by an Arkansan back in to exile than to continue its display.
The Secretary of State’s office identified the area where the nativity scene is located on the capitol grounds as a free speech zone. If it is truly a free speech zone then yes they should let anyone place a display following the rules they have set up. We do have separation of church and state in this country. Also there was a holiday this time of year a very long time before it was a Christian holiday. The holidays are enjoyed by people of all faiths, beliefs and non beliefs and what better way to recognize this then to have and honor a free speech zone at the state capitol. The Winter Solstice display is well planned with a computerized cad program diagram and a detailed explanation of all content which was submitted to the Secretary of State’s office for approval. A meeting was also requested and denied to try to better explain the intentions. The only other information that can be given is to build the display and show it to them if they will agree to view it. It appears that we have a free “religious” speech zone at the Arkansas State Capitol.
Also anyone who is not concerned about the lack of separation of church and state and a Christian symbol being allowed as the only holiday free speech display should be concerned because the next time it may not be your religion or symbol that is allowed and you may experience censorship yourself and it will it be okay then?
If the Nativity display offends anyone then they should all work on Sunday and Christmas and not take advantage of Christian days. They are the first to yell about things of this nature but love to take advantage of the days to “do their own thing”. These people are to be pitied.
The nativity scene does not offend me the fact that it is on government property without other faiths or non faiths being allowed the same opportunity offends me. How would you feel if it was a different faith or an atheist display on government property and you were not allowed to display your faith. I also agree that the wood carvings are a beautiful representation of Ozark wood working. The religious symbol just does not belong on govern property unless all faiths and non faiths are allowed the same opportunity.
As someone identified by others as “atheist”, I admit that I don’t have any problem with the displays of whatever religions are representative of the beliefs of people who establish a government for themselves. Of course, this means that allowing the displays of some sets of beliefs, in an equally representative form of government, one must allow displays of all sets of beliefs if requested.
Of course, on the subject of “Christmas” decorations, some are strictly religious in nature and some are not. Perhaps, if seats of government wish to decorate for the traditional holiday season, some decorations such as lights, trees, ornaments, artificial snow, candy canes, etc. are appropriately non-religious in their symbolism. I think it quite easy to decorate for the holidays without resorting to christian symbolism. The holidays aren’t strictly christian. Nevertheless, why shouldn’t christians be allowed to decorate as they wish PROVIDED they do not attempt to monopolize decorations and displays on public properties. My beliefs and practices are decidedly non-christian. If I wish create a display those non-christian views, ought I not be free to do so?
I do not agree with non-christians who wish to abolish christian symbolism in a public forum, however, I agree that all beliefs and practices ought to be honored equally regardless of who is or is not the majority.
As I said before suzique, it’s not my religion being displayed and I don’t care. If it’s a symbol that means nothing to you, I don’t understand why it’s offensive. To non-Christians, it’s a baby and his family. Pretty benign if you ask me.
I do understand what you’re saying about it being a religious symbol and it being offensive for people not to be able to display theirs, but I also wouldn’t have a problem with a Jewish display or a neo-pagan display. Most of the decorations we put up are of pagan origin anyway.
An atheist display would be a toughie. I guess they could display some iPods and a credit card bill. Not that commercialism is what atheist believe in (as a group, you can’t really say what they believe in, just what they don’t believe in), but commercialism is the symbol of the secular holiday season (true for most Christians too).
I agree with Amanda Most of the stuff around Christmas stems from Pagan origins. At least around Christmas people act a little more civilized. I forgot about Black Friday which I avoid either working or going to LSU-ARK football games. If everyone were allowed to display a symbol of the beliefs on or around the Capitol grounds, I gues it would be pretty cluttered, Anyway, I always get a kick out of hearing peoples views and beliefs on Religion and Politics which can get perry heated. Hope everyone had a Cool Yule. At least we are able to express our views on this blog without getting thrown in the clink. Thanks AMANDA